There were a few weird sights at the Conservative Conference this year.
The sight of Sir Desmond Swayne MP, sat alone in the middle of a conference, reading a book with his headphones on. And then the revelation that the headphones were not even plugged in...
Then there was the surprisingly comedic speech by chief secretary to the Treasury Liz Truss.
But the real story was Boris Johnson versus Theresa May.
In this special podcast episode, NMA online producer Ollie Smith sat down (the podcast was actually recorded at the bar, standing up) with politico Iain Anderson, chief executive of communications consultancy firm Cicero Group.
They discuss who is up and who is down, who is hot and who is not, and whether it is simply too early to speculate on a future leader.
Listen to the podcast in full above, but do not forget to subscribe on iTunes, and - if you are feeling really kind - leave us a review.